Fluance RT83 vs pro ject Debut Carbon

That's a tough choice, and one I went through myself. I ended up going for the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo and I have no regrets. The sound is amazing (I'm in the US, so it comes with the Sumiko Rainier cart). To be honest, I have nothing to compare against (this is my first TT as well). I do have some thoughts:

1. my main gripe with the Evo is that for a $500 TT, it comes with a felt mat... That thing is a freaking van de graaff generator with all the static it imparts on the records. I would suggest buying a cheap rubber mat to replace that ASAP. Seriously, the static is bad enough that it'll crackle and pop; you can even hear it discharging / grounding when you pull the record off the table (don't even think about flipping while still in motion like some people advocate, it'll give it an extra strong charge).

2. you cannot adjust the vertical tracking angle: this makes it so some cartridges will ride pretty low / close to the record. While not an issue with the included cart, this can certainly be a concern if you want to try other cartridges down the line

3. for the price, the Fluance RT-5 does offer some decent upgrades (like the acrylic platter), but since it's basically the same as the RT-2 (upgraded cart and platter), I'm not convinced it's worth the price difference from the RT-2.

4. both the Evo and RT-5 have speed control, so no real issue there. I can't compare the two, but I'd say they would perform about the same.

Other than that, it's a great TT. Very high quality, easy to set up. Works amazing out of the box (some tweaking may be needed - I recommend getting a tool to assess the balance of the tone arm and azimuth).

What are your planning to listen?

EDIT: I wanted to address some of the opinions brought up regarding the motor of the Project Evo. As I understand it, the previous model (Carbon III) had issues with the motor / speed control, that seem to have been fixed with the Evo. I have not read similar complaints about the Evo, and even though I'm not a long-term user by any stretch, it's given me no trouble at all (anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt).

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1. Sorry for yet another "What should I buy?" thread. I have had a Fluance RT85 pre-order for the past month or so, and in that time I've of course done more reading and research and the Pro-ject Debut Carbon Evo has caught my eye. Lots of people rag on the Fluance tone arm, although the rest of the table seems to be competent. The Pro-ject doesn't have a ton of info out there since it's newer but all the reviews I could find seem favorable and it's the same price, and with what seems to be a better tone arm. It doesn't have auto shut-off or a an acrylic platter like the Fluance, but those aren't deal-breakers for me.

   Should I cancel my Fluance order and go for the Pro-ject instead? I had one in Walnut in my cart last night and of course this morning all that is available anywhere is white but I'm willing to wait if it's a much better option. $500 is my budget so I'm not looking at anything more expensive at this time. Thanks!

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2. You should cancel the Fluance order.

3. I believe the Evo comes with an Ortofon Red whereas the Fluance is fitted with a Blue.
   Personally for me a auto shut off would be on the wanted list but I'm old and tired of having to worry about getting up at side end!
   The Evo does come highly praised by the Audiophileman, he seems to think it can rival a Rega Planar 3.

   The Debut 2 I had was ok, but nothing special. It didn't hum or rumble as some report but with the fitted Ortofon 5E it was a bit flat and undynamic.
   Saying that, it was an early one and ages ago.
   My current Denon DP400 is miles ahead and is based on the same basic parts as the Fluance but with a better arm and I like it with either a Nagaoka MP110 or Grado Blue.

   Thud3 and drmevo like this.

4. I just read his review, and either it's just an error in model designation, or he was comparing the EVO to the long-discontinued RP1 and RP3 models. Also, different reviewers can like different things, and What HiFi thought the Planar 2 was a better sounding deck than the EVO (I think those are the two closest in price in the UK). In the US, where the OP is from, the EVO includes the Sumiko Rainier instead of the 2M Red (I find the Rainier a more attractive offer, not being a fan of any 2M model I've heard).

5. Isn't that Sumiko an Excel in disguise?
   I have an ES70 fitted with a shibata, nice!
   Of course, with the OP based in the States then the prices most likely don't compare to UK prices so it could be a different comparison.

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6. I own one of the first Fluance turntables, the RT-82, and it is a competent machine that served as a great way to get to know phono. Some will suggest vintage, and it's true that there are GREAT vintage turntables out there, but if you are just getting started there is much to learn about all of the details of these machines and cartridges, and phono preamps, that the hobbyist needs to learn before they are equipped to make good decisions about what directions are best for them.

   Having said all of that, I am a fan of the new phono hobbyist buying something decent AND new, like a Fluance or U-Turn Orbit, or Rega P1 or P2, or one of the Projects, learning how to mount cartridges (using budget carts at first), etc etc, before jumping into the world of high-priced new gear or vintage. So, to answer your first question, yes a Fluance model would be a great way to get going and will serve you well.

7. So, I tried the RT-80 and I now own an Evo. This was my thinking: I wanted the Fluance because unlike most new decent turntables, it has a removable headshell and I wanted that because I like to experiment with cartridges. Unfortunately, I found that the Fluance has a very high-mass arm (27g) which makes it incompatible with many popular cartridges. It worked well with the included Audio Technica VM95 cartridges, but not well with everything else I tried (including the new Sumiko Oyster series). I ultimately decided that the Fluance was not a good alternative to a vintage Technics. But I still wanted a brand new turntable with sleek looks and a low-mass arm and a heavy platter, and that's why I decided to get the Evo. The Evo has fixed the motor noise issue I had on the old Debut Carbon, the new platter is superior even to the acrylic platter and I found it not difficult to remove the cartridge (though obviously still I use my vintage Technics to swap cartridges). So my preference is for the Evo and that's why, but the RT-85 is still a good one if you just intend to use it out of the box.

8. The EM that Fluance publishes for that arm is likely incorrect. Someone should measure the effective mass of the tonearm to set things straight.

   I'm not saying Fluance is any better than Pro-Ject, just pointing this out here. I wouldn't buy either personally.

9. Yes, I already have one vintage table (Philips 312) in the dining room and I like it but I'd just like something new that I don't have to fiddle with for our main living room system. I've searched a bit for vintage and they are not so easy to find around here, or the ones that exist, the seller knows what they have and they are priced (or over-priced) accordingly. I don't suspect I would be disappointed in the Fluance, but it does seem like Pro-ject is a more established brand.Right, that is one other aspect I forgot about. Changing cartridges would be easier with the Fluance, but if I'm being honest, I wouldn't be doing that with any regularity. What's difficult for me to tell is whether the differences reviewers have found (like the CNET review) boil down to the differences in the cartridges or the turntables themselves?I have suspected this, otherwise how would the 2M series sound even halfway decent? For all the talk about the tone arm, it's hard to tell what is based on hands-on experience vs. looking at spec sheets.

   Does anyone know, is the Pro-ject more upgradable? That may be one consideration that puts it over the top for me.

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10. That's a problem with turntable reviews. Most reviewers will only review the turntable out of the box (assuming that the buyer, especially of a more beginner turntable, will not upgrade the cartridge), so a lot of the sound they're describing is due to the cartridge, and a real comparison of the turntables would involve the same cartridge on both. But it's hard to find reviews like that.

11. Most reviewers are also paid shills that will never say too many negative things about any product.

12. One thing you need to understand is that Fluance does not make their own turntables. They are marketing company and the turntables are made by an OEM, in this case, Ya Horng. It would be very easy for them to get the specs wrong.The TT will likely be no better or worse than another Ya Horng with similar features. Again, that 27g EM number is wrong.

    RE: the Pro-Ject, these often end up dumped on the used market because "upgrading" them makes very little sense. I would suggest getting a turntable that doesn't need too many "upgrades" and add-ons down the line from the get go, rather than spending too much money on add-ons later.

    In either case you are getting a somewhat cheaply made belt-drive turntable so it's sort of a case of pick your poison. A better strategy would be to save up more money for something better, or find a fully serviced vintage turntable for your budget.

    If you are really fixated on these two turntables, buy both, try them out, and return whatever you don't like.

    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021

13. 

    GChief Not well known, super member or other silliness Subscriber

    And having lived with an RT 82 for the better part of a month I would recommend it.

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14. What do you consider worth getting in terms of new turntables? I keep my eye out for vintage stuff but like I said, I haven't seen much, although there is a guy nearby that restores Thorens tables - I think his company is called Vinyl Nirvana. But I'm not interested in spending that much at this time.

15. I hate to say this but there isn't anything brand new under $1K I would recommend in good conscience. Are you within driving distance of a large city? Maybe they have more selection for you?

    For example, a friend of mine lives in the Boston area and put together a very nice system all based around serviced vintage gear. He doesn't have problems with his stuff like you would with a CL special.

    The VN stuff can be very expensive. From what I can tell he does excellent work but it doesn't come cheap. He used to offer occasionally something called "starter packages" that I think were less than $700 or so. Maybe you can contact him about one of those. Bear in mind sprung chassis turntables do not do well with wood flooring unless you can set up a wall-mounted shelf.

16. One thing to think about is getting your money back when you're ready to move on from a machine. The Fluance machine I own is unused at this point but I've never sold it because it's worth little used. I tried to sell it at least twice and found little interest.

    Machines that seem to hold their value from new, in a big way, are the Rega Planars. Maybe it would be worthwhile to stretch for a Planar 2, which you'll easily be able to sell if you decide to move on from it. Food for thought.

17. I have a Fluance RT85. I think it is an underrated bargain.
    It does what I want a TT to do: it spins the record at a consistent speed, it does not introduce noise, and it tracks very well.
    Specs are specs, and the RT85 has pretty good ones, but to me the proof is in the playing.
    I do not hear any rumble or wow and flutter. The Ortofon tracks even loud passages without rattling around, and claims better frequency response than my ears can hear.
    I have no first hand experience with the U-Turns or Regas or others.
    I bought the Fluance to replace a 40 ish year old Thorens TD115 with an AT15Sa cartridge. Old and tired equipment, but good stuff in its day.
    I have not regretted my purchase.
    As to the Fluance’s reliability and durability, time will tell.
    Don’t listen to all the hype, listen to the TT. If you don’t like it, they will take it back, I think.

    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021

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18. In my area a couple years ago there was a guy selling a Rega with multiple after market platters, 3 extra unopened cartridges, and a bunch of other stuff. It sat for months and only seemed to sell after he lowered the price significantly.

    Even at 400 dollars for probably 800 dollars retail worth of stuff I wasn't buying, which probably tells you what I think of lower end Rega turntables.

19. I know this wasn't directed at me, but I see nothing wrong with new turntables in the $500 and under category. Different reviewers have found that modest turntables like the Music Hall mmf 2.2, Rega P1, and even the older AT-PL120 sounded better than the widely admired Technics SL1200 Mk II. They also seem to last a long time; one friend has been enjoying records with the $199 Music Hall USB-1 for six years with no issues and another has had the Music Hall mmf 2.1 for 18 years. I have regular pizza and music get-togethers with a friend, greatly enjoying the original Rega P1 that he's had for about 15 years. I've only had it a couple of years, but my $249 AT-LP120XUSB has been very enjoyable for 78's and lp's.

    There are several people in this forum who chose new models at $500 or less from U-Turn, Audio Technica, Fluance, Music Hall, Rega, Denon, Pro-Ject, and probably others I'm not recalling right now, who have been very happy with their purchases. A person can always spend more to get higher performance, but what really counts is enjoying one's records. I love this quote from Steve Guttenberg's video review of the $399 Music Hall mmf 1.5, "It was, it was engaging. That's the thing, I kept wanting to play one record after another. And that's what this is really all about. That's what being an audiophile at its best does. Whatever the gear is, that's not, that's not really the thing. If whatever gear you have, whatever your system is, and you want to keep listening to it, that's good. So with this turntable, I kept listening. . ." After mounting a $79 Sumiko Oyster cartridge on it, I get that "wanting to play one record after another" experience even with my lowly LP120XUSB.

20. I picked up a Fluance RT80 in November and have had no issues. I did upgrade the conical stylus to an elliptical. As stated above I want to play records on it. And I do. I always consider upgrading but honestly at this time money prevents it. So as long as the RT80 keeps doing what it's doing I'm happy with it.

    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021

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